Yes a big win for sanity in that country, though I heard the new leader’s speech and it was all about inflation and crime. I didn’t hear anything about the Covid oppression.
The Hamas attack itself was horrifying, but seeing and hearing people support them, justify this behaviour, and deny or minimise the savagery has been in many ways even more shocking.
Back in 1981 I travelled in this region, down from Turkey through Syria to Jordan by bus, and thence to Israel via the Allenby Bridge. I was inspired by the Israeli stories of experiments in communal living in the Kibbutzim, and the experimental regenerative agriculture, making the desert bloom. I delved into the history of this region, and just yesterday, I reviewed it from 3 different sources.
Both the Jewish people and the Arab peoples have arguable historical claims to this land, and once you start to give validity to those claims, you run into trouble and an impossible situation. (Sort of like Australia right now, but that's another story.)
But let's start in the early 20th century, when the Ottoman Turks controlled all this part of the Middle East. There were Jewish settlers, and Arab settlers, and most of the time in those days they co-existed fairly peacefully together. At the time of WW1, the British enlisted the help of both Jews and Arabs to fight the Turks, promising the land to both groups. The British withdrew, leaving the UN to sort it out, and a plan for partition was proposed. The Jews accepted, the Arabs did not. Then a coalition of Arab countries launched at attack on the newly formed state of Israel - but the Israelis won that war, and claimed more territory as buffer zones in order to protect their own lands (a bit like Russia in Ukraine).
This was the "Six-Day War" in 1967.
And so it continued, with sporadic fighting and eventually the Yom Kippur war in 1973, which resulted in another redrawing of Israel's borders (this time relinquishing the Sinai back to Egypt, etc).
Both parties - Israel and Palestine - have also had to deal with huge influxes of refugees, Jewish refugees not just from Europe after WW2 but from other Arab countries, and Arab refugees from all the various wars in the region (not all of them caused by Israel). This has had a further destabilising effect. But Israel assimilated the Jewish refugees, while the Palestinians weaponised the Arab refugees, until this whole smouldering mess developed and festered in the settlements.
The current situation in Gaza is horrible, but it's a lot more complicated than simply an oppressed people trying to fight for their homeland (though it's more popular these days to frame it that way).
The Palestinian people have refused all offers of negotiation, right from the beginning, and instead they were (and are) fixated on trying to wipe out Israel and all Israelis.
Some say Hamas was created by Israel to counter the PLO (which I think is true, though Israel lost control of Hamas way back).
And some are saying that Hamas is the legitimate elected government of Gaza (which is technically true, though it is not clear just how much organic support they have) - in which case, it rather strengthens the Israeli case for a retaliatory attack.
My feelings of support and admiration for Israel lessened over the past 40 years, and my sympathy for the Palestinians grew - but that has all changed in the past 10 days.
Seeing and hearing the pro-Palestinian rallies - including here in Australia - has re-activated my concerns about Islam and its Jihadic agenda. And the anti-semitic sentiment has been particularly shocking.
I want to stand for peace, not one side or the other. But I fear that the reality is that the Palestinians are not amenable to peaceful co-existence. In which case, the Israeli government does not have a lot of options.
I’m impressed Mara. Well stated and you know your history. Sadly, few do and are fed either a pack of lies or distortions.
As my family and I were there during the British Mandate, we have a very good grasp of what went on. uUfortunately, many are accepting revisionist history put out by the “Palestinians”. What it does is shut down the ability to have peace. Strange how so many different ethnic groups who have been in conflicts are living in peace side by side.
The hamas look is very different from KKK whites. Even that low resolution picture you dug up shows the suicide vests and green headbands. I guess "they all look the same" to you.
" .. In Poland, the ghettos where Jews lived were eliminated in 1942."
It started before that, and the major "liquidations" in Poland took place in 1943 and 1944.
It's the imagery demonstrated by the photo. How can someone be offended by one, but not the other. Apparently, BLM have double standards when it comes to antisemitism.
You are ignorant of historical facts. Jews were slaughtered in British Palestine before there was any modern day Israel and the 1947 partition gave Arabs and Jews their own countries. I lived through that period as did my parents. So in your world Jews should just sit by and succumb to genocide. Hamas doesn’t care about its own people.
The land was a mosquito-infested swamp until Jewish pioneers arrived and started to make the desert bloom. Once that process was underway, Arabs from neighboring lands started to arrive as well. There are also some towns in Israel that have had continuous Jewish presence for centuries.
Dig on almost any inch of the land and you’ll find relics from Jewish life thousands of years ago. The land belonged to the Jews first. This is what the Balfour Declaration recognized— the historical Jewish claim to that land. Seems we have forgotten history.
The problem is that the Palestinian people will not accept partitioning. Back in the day, the UN came up with a two state solution, which the Israelis accepted but the Arabs did not. Instead, they launched a war of extermination (1967, the "Six Day War") - which Israel won, and then redrew its borders to provide protected buffer zones.
Every proposal for peaceful co-existence has been refused, and any Arab leader who was willing to negotiate got assassinated.
This is an excellent documentary from 1982, with old footage, just recently uploaded to YT. It's a fairly balanced look at the background.
Mara the war of extermination was the 1948 war. Five Arab armies attacked and told the Arabs in the new Jewish state to leave because they were going to drive the Jews into the sea.
Yes, there would have been earlier wars... 20 years would have been too long to go without serious conflict. Mind, the Six Day War was also a war of (intended) extermination, I expect, but these subsequent wars mostly didn't get neighbouring countries involved.
This latest one will probably be even worse - it's shaping up to be an existential war for both sides.
Spot on Ely. Thank you.
On a total sidenote, I’m so glad about the new New Zealand coalition! Glad Jacinda Party gone!
Yes a big win for sanity in that country, though I heard the new leader’s speech and it was all about inflation and crime. I didn’t hear anything about the Covid oppression.
Probably could not be any worse than the other regime. Praying for all!
Did you see this wonderful comment by an elected official in Poland?
https://x.com/TBifford/status/1712940890053124341?s=20
He wants a safe country. What a revelation.
Exactly! Should be the norm. I love how a matter of fact he was about it.
No I didn't. Thanks Bellatrix.
Good to hear the voice of reason - and humanity!
The Hamas attack itself was horrifying, but seeing and hearing people support them, justify this behaviour, and deny or minimise the savagery has been in many ways even more shocking.
Back in 1981 I travelled in this region, down from Turkey through Syria to Jordan by bus, and thence to Israel via the Allenby Bridge. I was inspired by the Israeli stories of experiments in communal living in the Kibbutzim, and the experimental regenerative agriculture, making the desert bloom. I delved into the history of this region, and just yesterday, I reviewed it from 3 different sources.
Both the Jewish people and the Arab peoples have arguable historical claims to this land, and once you start to give validity to those claims, you run into trouble and an impossible situation. (Sort of like Australia right now, but that's another story.)
But let's start in the early 20th century, when the Ottoman Turks controlled all this part of the Middle East. There were Jewish settlers, and Arab settlers, and most of the time in those days they co-existed fairly peacefully together. At the time of WW1, the British enlisted the help of both Jews and Arabs to fight the Turks, promising the land to both groups. The British withdrew, leaving the UN to sort it out, and a plan for partition was proposed. The Jews accepted, the Arabs did not. Then a coalition of Arab countries launched at attack on the newly formed state of Israel - but the Israelis won that war, and claimed more territory as buffer zones in order to protect their own lands (a bit like Russia in Ukraine).
This was the "Six-Day War" in 1967.
And so it continued, with sporadic fighting and eventually the Yom Kippur war in 1973, which resulted in another redrawing of Israel's borders (this time relinquishing the Sinai back to Egypt, etc).
Both parties - Israel and Palestine - have also had to deal with huge influxes of refugees, Jewish refugees not just from Europe after WW2 but from other Arab countries, and Arab refugees from all the various wars in the region (not all of them caused by Israel). This has had a further destabilising effect. But Israel assimilated the Jewish refugees, while the Palestinians weaponised the Arab refugees, until this whole smouldering mess developed and festered in the settlements.
The current situation in Gaza is horrible, but it's a lot more complicated than simply an oppressed people trying to fight for their homeland (though it's more popular these days to frame it that way).
The Palestinian people have refused all offers of negotiation, right from the beginning, and instead they were (and are) fixated on trying to wipe out Israel and all Israelis.
Some say Hamas was created by Israel to counter the PLO (which I think is true, though Israel lost control of Hamas way back).
And some are saying that Hamas is the legitimate elected government of Gaza (which is technically true, though it is not clear just how much organic support they have) - in which case, it rather strengthens the Israeli case for a retaliatory attack.
My feelings of support and admiration for Israel lessened over the past 40 years, and my sympathy for the Palestinians grew - but that has all changed in the past 10 days.
Seeing and hearing the pro-Palestinian rallies - including here in Australia - has re-activated my concerns about Islam and its Jihadic agenda. And the anti-semitic sentiment has been particularly shocking.
I want to stand for peace, not one side or the other. But I fear that the reality is that the Palestinians are not amenable to peaceful co-existence. In which case, the Israeli government does not have a lot of options.
I’m impressed Mara. Well stated and you know your history. Sadly, few do and are fed either a pack of lies or distortions.
As my family and I were there during the British Mandate, we have a very good grasp of what went on. uUfortunately, many are accepting revisionist history put out by the “Palestinians”. What it does is shut down the ability to have peace. Strange how so many different ethnic groups who have been in conflicts are living in peace side by side.
The hamas look is very different from KKK whites. Even that low resolution picture you dug up shows the suicide vests and green headbands. I guess "they all look the same" to you.
" .. In Poland, the ghettos where Jews lived were eliminated in 1942."
It started before that, and the major "liquidations" in Poland took place in 1943 and 1944.
https://www.yadvashem.org/holocaust/about/fate-of-jews/poland.html
It's the imagery demonstrated by the photo. How can someone be offended by one, but not the other. Apparently, BLM have double standards when it comes to antisemitism.
?
You just call anyone that you think might disagree with you BLM?
Strongly pathetic.
i don' think blm care much about antisemitism.
You think I'm a hamas fan? That's why I happen to know the Polish liquidation timeline, and I keep the Yad Vashem links handy.
How does that Russia taint taste?
I don't know what you're talking about? I'm talking about Black Lives Matter, the organization. Please don't put words in my mouth.
"How can someone be offended by one, but not the other. Apparently, BLM have double standards when it comes to antisemitism."
Why even bring up blm? You're calling me blm. Or perhaps I'm just sensitive. Too much caffeine today.
This is working as it should for TPTB.
The DIVIDE AND CONQUER continuous RAPE OF THE MIND that's been happening for decades.
I do not support Slaughtering of any innocent humans.
Hamas was created by the ZIONESTS decades ago.
TPTB make $$$ off both sides since this was designed by ROTHSCHILDS.
TPTB are laughing at the world.
Max Igan covers this well below.
http://thephaser.com/2023/10/middle-east-time-bomb-the-other-side-of-the-news-max-igan/
Why don’t you leave my site. I can smell an antisemite. No time for you.
You are ignorant of historical facts. Jews were slaughtered in British Palestine before there was any modern day Israel and the 1947 partition gave Arabs and Jews their own countries. I lived through that period as did my parents. So in your world Jews should just sit by and succumb to genocide. Hamas doesn’t care about its own people.
Nothing more to really say.
The land was a mosquito-infested swamp until Jewish pioneers arrived and started to make the desert bloom. Once that process was underway, Arabs from neighboring lands started to arrive as well. There are also some towns in Israel that have had continuous Jewish presence for centuries.
Dig on almost any inch of the land and you’ll find relics from Jewish life thousands of years ago. The land belonged to the Jews first. This is what the Balfour Declaration recognized— the historical Jewish claim to that land. Seems we have forgotten history.
The problem is that the Palestinian people will not accept partitioning. Back in the day, the UN came up with a two state solution, which the Israelis accepted but the Arabs did not. Instead, they launched a war of extermination (1967, the "Six Day War") - which Israel won, and then redrew its borders to provide protected buffer zones.
Every proposal for peaceful co-existence has been refused, and any Arab leader who was willing to negotiate got assassinated.
This is an excellent documentary from 1982, with old footage, just recently uploaded to YT. It's a fairly balanced look at the background.
https://youtu.be/cfkUE5Q0K04
Mara the war of extermination was the 1948 war. Five Arab armies attacked and told the Arabs in the new Jewish state to leave because they were going to drive the Jews into the sea.
Ok, I stand corrected - I'm not good at dates!
Yes, there would have been earlier wars... 20 years would have been too long to go without serious conflict. Mind, the Six Day War was also a war of (intended) extermination, I expect, but these subsequent wars mostly didn't get neighbouring countries involved.
This latest one will probably be even worse - it's shaping up to be an existential war for both sides.